Aesthetics of a set

Uilleann Pipes
1

In another thread, Peter Laban wrote:

And it turned out the owner had varnished the set in a high gloss finish…

I’m sitting here in the office, first patient late :sleep: , cruising C&F, and was particularly struck by this observation.

Now, I know that everyone wants a nice looking set. But, what is wrong with patina on the wood and brass work parts of the set? Why are some so inclined to ruin a perfectly good set of pipes with varnish for fecks sake? Why the fuss to polish the brass? To decal, inscribe, or engrave the metal parts?

I’d say go learn to play 'em. The magnificent sound you may one day create, used to advantage to render a tune, will do much more to capture the attention of a bystander than any polish or varnish job.

2

While it is understandably a very different field of music - you’ll rarely (if indeed ever) see an orchestra play with dirty, dusty or tarnished instruments. Even in smaller situations like the string quartetrs etc. that are popular around here. Even if it’s just a casual performance the instruments look nice and well cared for. Perhaps this is the idea behind some makers or players who take some extra time to keep their instruments looking (and hopefully, equally working) well.

To varnish a set of pipes does sound a bit much, as there are some amaving finishes one can achieve with the bare wood alone. But even still, if that’s what they wanted to do, so be it.

3

I agree, but it is still nice to have a good looking set and take care of it well.

4

Some may go on and on about the heritage their instruments will eventually become and at the same time think it’s more traditional to have an instrument coming apart at the seams, that is stuck together with sellotape and covered in stale guinness, puke, sweat and dandruff. Fools, you can’t have it both ways.

These things cost and you rely on them for your playing, you look after them if you have any sense.

5

Precicely Peter. They aren’t a cheap investment for most of us, and due to that fact alone, I’m often supprised at how many players don’t tend to the regular upkeep of their sets - brass polish aside. How often do we hear of old sets found in someone’s attic/basement/closet that are incomplete, broken, or just generally falling apart? Obviously every case is different, but a little care would go a long way to preserving these instruments as well as the one’s seeing active play I would think.

6

Well, who buys pipes mostly? Why do people want to play, own, be involved in piping? Its not like theres a very supportive musical community to encourage and develop the music side of piping for most of the -outside- players, and a lot of american pipers come into it later in life. Also, for many beginners, its not -just- about the music, is it? Its a whole package of Yah-yahs. Reading the various posts presented here over time, it seems to attract some people by it’s “coolness” factor, the “hard driving cool piper” concept, the big phallic stainless steel 4 reg sets, the rocking band images.

Perhaps the focus towards the Aesthetic rather than the sad reality of our own poor musical piping ability, is just an inevitable result of the incredible unliklihood that we will ever progress beyond our piping limitations. We must focus on something, make -something- right, if we cant sound good, at least we can look good, at least we can be pipers after all.

When we are confronted with the fact that our instruments are way out of tune, overly loud, brash, too hard to blow, with breaking d’s and gobbling hard d’s and terrible e’s and the drones stop under too much pressure or they bend under any pressure, and on top of it all, you’ve been practicing that stacatto triplet for years and it hasent gotten any better. At least you’ve -got- a set of pipes, and thus you are a -piper-.

on top of all of it is the music itself, and eventually realizing that you’ve set yourself up for failure, that you must spend all your time making reeds just to keep the bastards going, that you must sacrafice the important to practice, or else you wont get any better, and practicing is hard work. Between practicing and the reeds, You’ve got to be so obsessed that there almost isnt any point to it any more. There wont be any time for anything else.

I dont blame the guys who polish the patina. My hands are especially acidic, and every piece of brass i’ve ever touched has turned brown in minutes. But I dont have to time to polish, i’ve got to practice! Apparently though, I do have the time to write this forum and will now be late to work. :slight_smile:

7

Don’t misread my statements and questions. I am in no way implying that one should not properly care for a set and treat it with respect. It’s the “ribbons” on a set, the polish varnish and the like, that do nothing but make it shine or look pretty that I don’t understand.

I cringe when I see some of the modern day "piping greats " toss their sets around the way they do. I once watched a piper throw a utility knife into the pipe box on top of his antique priceless set. The set had the appearance as if that demeanor towards the pipes been well established. They were taken for granted. As Peter implies, these sets are taped and rubber banded together. These people are at the opposite end of the spectrum from the ones I started this thread about. Those of us in the midle should be able to see our sets last for the remainders of our days.

Show me a classical violinist who has revarnished his instrument for looks and I’ll show you somebody who has ruined such instrument. Sure, they are more likely thatn fiddle players to keep their instrument rosin-free and nice looking but, hopefully, they know when to stop and what alterations will affect the character of the instrument.

Many people getting into pipes do not have the experience to know when to stop. Don’t ya think the maker would have put Celtic knots on his reg keys if he thought they were essential to the instrument?

I learned a lesson with brass polish years ago when I ruined a regulator pin and key as well as mount by using what was probably a corrosive brass polish. How do you know that you guys aren’t using same?

Care for your pipes…but don’t kill 'em in the process.

8

In the case of stringed instruments, not wiping away the rosin dust that collects on the face of the instrument and on the bow, will in time lead to the demise of that instruments finish. This will ruin the good tone that the finish is in part responsible for.

When you take into consideration the amount of money these string players have sunk into their fiddles (not unlike UP owners), it makes perfect sense to keep them clean and well maintained.

9

Nitpicking about something so inconsequential as this is as anal as the person who neurotically cleans and polishes their set religiously. If someone takes joy in holding a bright shiny set of pipes why would you hold them up for ridicule? Whether they can play well or not is a totally unrelated issue. A set of pipes can be correctly set up and running well regardless of whether it is clean and shiny or bruised and abused on the surface. If someone likes to have a bright shiny set then what is it to you?

Any violin repair technician will tell you that the varnishes used on violins are designed to come off easily for re-application. Violins are frequently revarnished. Not only does it preserve the instrument, but there are many who argue that it has a significant effect on the sound of the violin to have a well-applied and maintained varnish coat. Sorry, but I think you are way off base, here. As Joseph notes, keeping the rosin dust cleaned off also helps preserve the varnish coat.

djm

10

I do not know of any Stradivarius owners who practice varnish replacement. Strad used a secret concoction of resins and what not designed speciffically for his fiddles. He took that recipe to the grave with him.

11

One does need to be aware of the effects that cleaners, polishes, varnish will have on the instrument. A polish may be fine on the metal but not the wood. As far as cleaning brass and silver, that is an opinion each person holds.

I know pipers that much prefer the patina on the brass over a shiny look and others like it to have a mirror finish. I personally think pipes look great ether way. Just make sure that whatever you do, you are not harming the instrument.

12

DJM …I mean djm…wrote

…nitpicking…ridicule

I haven’t nitpicked anything or ridiculed anybody. You just don’t get my drift.

You obviously haven’t had conversations with makers and restorers of symphonic instruments who have had 50 plus years of experience in studying great instruments, repairing instruments for a major orchestra, etc., regarding removal of varnishes. Joe Smith obviously knows something about this. Sure, it can be done but, not routinely, and only if necessary to permit major structural repairs, and NOT for visual aesthetics…but that instrument will be forever changed and you cannot argue that point.

How do you know that the “patina” on the outside and inside (bore) of a Coyne chanter is not what is giving it character? That patina becomes part of the instrument. The wood is changed due to age, wear and tear, and all the crap that gets blown through it, that falls into the toneholes from the fingers, etc. Maybe those things make it better? I say DON’T put a high gloss varnish on yer pipes, man!

13

I understand and agree to some extent with glands (and others’) thoughts on patination and general grunginess of pipes. I love seeing a nicely gleaming instrument belting out well-played tunes. But face it, the patination really doesn’t affect the sound of a set of pipes. Last time I saw him Paddy Keenan’s pipes could have tolerated a bit of a polish, but it didn’t matter to the sound. THAT was still glorious. I would submit that there are additional considerations that we should take into account before offering criticism on Paddy’s (or anyone else’s) patina’d pipes.

I’ll come clean and admit that my pipes have a nice patina. My major consideration in not polishing and polishing the durn things to a high gloss (which I’ll concede would be gorgeous) is the time it would take. Last time they were polished to a large extent it took over 5 hours from start to finish to get all the big and little fiddly bits done right. If I’m going to dedicate that much time to my pipes, I damn-sher want to spend it playing them and not merely fondling them.

Additionally, you’ve got to think about how often this dedication of time and efforts could be needed. I live in the middle of the rust belt and things oxidize quickly here. To keep them mirror-like and glossy they’d need polishing on virtually a weekly basis.

Like the good Doctor, I want to scream at the treatment I see some affording their instruments. But this is no news to anyone in any type of music (Give John Hiatt’s tune “Perfectly Good Guitar” a listen sometime). Just care for your instrument…that’s my thought.

That’s my 2 cents worth (or $3.58 Canadian) (or $212.02 in 1960 dollars). YMMV

:swear:

14

Wgority, what’s with the gratuitous Canada bashing? “That’s my 2 cents worth (or $3.58 Canadian)”

I get really upset here in Canada when Canadians gratuitously bash Americans, which is rapidly displacing hockey as the national pastime, but it is no better the other way round. Forgive me if I am overly sensitive.

Back to topic, and with respect to the comment that Glands originally quoted by Peter Laban, did Mr. Laban not also mention that the owner of the Wooff set in question had scalloped out the tone holes- I think I read that late last night? Would that not qualify as a far more onerous crime against a good set of pipes? Chimney height is a delicate thing is it not?

15

Great point, especially when the instrument is reaching decades in age. How many times have I watched “Antiques Roadshow”, and the appraiser is lamenting the fact that someone has polished a piece of furniture, or even a musical instrument (the most recent I saw was a 1940s Martin guitar) and the appraiser was emphatic that a good deal of value had been lost due to the owner “polishing up” the article being appraised.

To me, a nice patina adds character. And besides, things like UPs that are built to work correctly shouldn’t be taken apart and polished and the like… it’s too much risk in something not going back together correctly, and then where are you?

16

Yes, I believe it was a concoction of organic shellac, crushed gems and afterbirth… I’ve been having these dreams…

I think you are missing Glands’s point here folks. Take a deep breath and learn a new tune… now isn’t that better? :party:

Happy New Year!

Patrick.

17

Gregory, you failed to note my next parenthetical remark and call me age-ist as well. For the record, 1960 is the year of my birth. If you look at any of my previous posts, or even read further into this post you’d notice that the first person I criticise at any time is myself. I am, in fact, harder on myself than anyone else could be!

I love Canada and have many good friends there–including pipers (GHB, uillean and otherwise) who are greatly influential in my ongoing pursuit of the perfect drone. No offence was meant, and if it was taken I apologise. However, try not to be so hypersensitive…sheesh…

18

Look you two, if you can’t say anything nice to each other, then make it really deep and cutting.

Nobody’s bashing anyone, and let’s not start.


Thanks


JES

19

I second that totally.

My new set’s going to be made of ebony, box and brass, and I can’t wait until the brass gets this beautiful patina. Makes the overall looking of the instrument kind of “warm”. Or full of character, of course.

By the way, anybody knows what’s the matter with Chris Bayley? Waiting for several days for an ansower from him now, but nothing comes. Ok, might be christmays/new year ('s eve) days, and I don’t want to bug him, but I’m curious.

20

You’re right Joe. You (and everyone else)have my sincere apologies.

Bill