Greetings people.
I am a guitarist ( don’t hate me , I’m willing to change ) who is considering a move to a melody instrument to play Irish trad ( in sessions ).
I’m more interested in playing the melody than backing.
Way I see it , I can play the melody on the guitar , this is possible but hard to do as fast as I hear the pipes or fiddles playing!
Also , very very quiet compared to other session instruments
Next choice is another stringed instrument , to me , banjo , mandolin or bouzouki spring to mind.
Banjo strikes me as near guitar scale length so my fingers should be ok.
Mandolin , I love the sound but those frets are so small!
And can it be heard in a loud session?
Bouzouki , is this more for backing ?
Or indeed I can switch to a non fretted instrument but I’m a bit lazy!
Has anyone made any of the above transitions or can make any recommendations?
I’ve only ever seen a bouzouki backing. I like mandolin myself, but I’ve never played in anything other than a very small session, so I don’t know about how well it’d hold up, volume-wise. It’s a wonderful instrument, though.
Please don’t play banjo.
Also, feel free to consider whistle. Call me silly, but you’ll probably end up picking one up, anyway.
The whistle is a thought! I think banjos get the bad rep because they are kind of loud, very loud if they have a brass tone ring. Most Irish music is played on a 4 string banjo, as compared to the standard 5 string that’s used for bluegrass. There is a great book with a cd on playing Irish music on a 5 string though, single string melody even. It’s by Tom Hanway. Anyway, like I was saying most Irish music is played on a 4 string banjo, more specifically a tenor banjo which has a shorter neck length than it’s other 4 string cousin, the plectrum. The tenor for playing Irish is usually tuned GDAE which is the same tuning as a mandolin (and fiddle) so you would be learning the fingering if you wanted in the future to try either of those instruments. —same tuning but an octave lower, like an octave mandolin.
If you want further info on banjos, tenor or otherwise, check out Banjo Hangout which has a discussion forum, alot like this one. Another helpful place is the online store Folk of the Wood --check out their video instrument samples—one word of caution although i haven’t dealt with them myself there has been a bit of grumbling about order status from them so even though it’s an amazing site… The one starter banjo I hear most often recommended is the Goldtone, for about 400 I think, including their tenor models. I think Deering has a tenor model of their popular Goodtime banjo as well…I just checked and musicians friend has a goldtone cripple creek tenor for 336 with free shipping.
Even on the banjo hangout though you’ll hear jokes like ‘most bullet holes in banjos are the result of bad aim’
Why not compromise and get a dobro. That’ll give you the extra volume to play melody and be heard above the accompaniment.
Regarding the speed of playing, practice will get you there. I play about 10 tunes (jigs/reels/hornpipes) on guitar. I started slow but now can play along at a reasonable speed. Also I find it easier to play in DADGAD.
It’s funny, when people are just starting out in IrTrad they are often initially concerned that their instrument won’t be loud enough, however once you’ve been to a few sessions, and have tried to keep pace and play with proper feel, you usually end up wishing for a very quiet instrument, so that no one will hear all your mistakes!
There’s the scale thing, and also the tuning(it’s just 5ths like a fiddle) of a tenor banjo makes it a lot easier to play most Irish tunes on than a guitar. They just fit better.
It’s not the left fingers i have a problem with on the guitar, it’s the right fingers. I suppose some people may have the problem the other way though.
When i play whistle it’s my left fingers that are slower.
screeeech!!! just mentioned the right fingers being slower on guitar which makes sense if you’re playing with a pick because that one pick has to do all the work that four fingers are covering on the frets. If you are talking about playing with a pick you might try just working on the picking hand alone…one exercise is to just pick back and forth on one string either with a metronome and gradually increase speed or also pick back and forth as fast as you can, sort of a flurry. There’s also a whole school of thought that says to use circle picking where you don’t actually go back and forth in a staight line but make a little circle as you pick back and forth.
actually, my mistake; I got mixed up with your post and bradster’s original
post about playing backup guitar, figuring back-up is most likely strumming and picking.
cheers for the tips.
about the guitar , backing strumming speed is no problem.
melody picking is a bit slower on the guitar than banjo or mandolin.
it is to do with tuning indeed and also i think string guage and fret spacing .
i suppose some of these can be changed.
however on an electric for example there is no trouble : lower string guage normally ( as you dont need heavy guage to be ehard when amplified) and smaller string spacing too
but i dont fancy it as a trad instrument!
after some thinking , im maybe going down the whistle flute road!
it will do me no harm to start a completely new instrument.
well good luck and hang in there! There is definitely something about the difference in intervals between the guitar and (fiddle, mando, tenor banjo) that makes it easier to play melodies. I played guitar for longer than I’ll admit but after playing mandolin and fiddle for less than a year i could instinctively pick out melodies on those instruments in much the same way as one does when they sing…can’t really explain why it was that much easier. (except that difference in the intervals between strings)
you could even get a fairly inexpensive fiddle and those Kevin Burke Irish fiddle dvds and in a few months you wouldn’t know what lazy meant anymore!
Man , now im in a muddle.
I had always thought that fiddle was one of those instruments you had to spend years on learning , never mind mastering, almost in the same league as the pipes.
Is it really possible ( i mean with an hour or two a day practice as opposed to a 8 hours a day ) to actually be able to play tunes in the company of others after a few months?
Are you extremely talented?
Originally I was trying for an easy way into trad melody , knowing 1 instrument i.e. guitar ( albeit in a different area of music ) and knowing the music itself in my head.
That’s why I thought guitar , banjo, mando etc.
Next I imagined whistle or flute was a step further.
Are they easier to learn than fiddle? ( I don’t mean easy , just easier )
I think the fretless/holeless concept scares me and known someone learn and share their living space the odd time!
Anyone else able to give any kind of time scales for getting to a reasonable level on any particular instruments?
Lets say starting with knowing another instrument , being able to read music , knowing the music itself and working a full time job too.
I won’t say the fiddle is the easiest thing to learn; alot of it probably relies heavily on ‘if there’s a will there’s a way’… I had gotten a mandolin and learned some tunes on it thanks in large part to there being such a wealth of learning materials put out in the last 10 years, books with cds methods and dvds… then i heard that the violin/fiddle had the exact same layout as a mandolin so figured I had a clue of the fingering at least. With the fiddle you take it one day at a time and one issue a time…first is learning how to hold the bow and draw it across the strings just to make a fairly nice tone; just each open string at first very slowly to get it to sound halfway decent. Then try a play a scale or a simple melody like greensleeves. Like I was suggesting a dvd like the ones with Kevin burke teaching irish fiddle is a big help because not only will you be able to learn tunes at your own pace but be able to watch him do it so you can see how you should be approaching it. —You can learn alot by wandering into a violin shop and just asking questions about getting started and no doubt lessons will help…alot of people will rent a violin for $35. a month or so until they see if they want to stay with it… i don’t want to try and talk you into getting a fiddle just keep an open mind…have to admit the mandolin is a good stating point for fiddle because it gives you at least the fingering mechanics…but if you have any interest ask some fiddle players for advice on getting started; just don’t buy anything from them! …just kidding, ok there’s some truth to that!
