Hi everyone! First of all, this is my first post to the C&F forums. I’ve lurked from time to time and never really signed up and joined in, but I had a question that I wanted to ask so I figured now was the time!
So on to it! Bear with me, I can be wordy. We host a kind of mixed non-traditional session on Tuesday nights at my church. It’s very informal and a lot of fun. We never know what to expect and that’s really the point. Everyone brings something to the table and we see what we get. The mix tends to fall mostly into Gospel and Bluegrass. There is a fair amount of old time traditional Appalachian and Irish stuff and a very small percentage of country will slip in from time to time. Once we even played some Everly Brothers. I am typically the group’s upright bassist, but I plan to introduce some whistle into the group since I am really a woodwind player, and I need to get back to my roots. So, that’s the backstory, but my real question is this.
I can play the leads and keep up with the fiddlers and all of that. The difficult part is fitting in with this widely varied group when I’m not playing a lead. I don’t want to step on toes while others are taking a lead and I want to keep my accompaniment classy. First, can you, the fine fine folks of the Chiff and Fipple recommend some recordings that you think are examples of this blended and varied style of whistle? (The Chieftains I know do a lot of style mashups, and I enjoy their non-traditional stuff sometimes, even though I think some of their collaborators kind of missed the point. I’m talking to you Van Morrison)
And Second, how about you folks, the players? What are some tips, techniques and bits of knowledge you may have acquired when and if you’ve played in this kind of a setting? Thanks all, It’s a pleasure to finally meet you!
Interestingly different take here. I assume you’re talking about playing, on whistle, an accompaniment to melody elsewhere in the group, is that it? If so, that’s something I’ve done on songs right enough. I’ve never done that, on whistle, on fast instrumental stuff though. It must be possible, and there will be people here who’ve done it, I’m sure.
And I’ve just picked up the hint hidden in your post - bluegrass. I understand that, in some (is it all these days?) bluegrass and old-timey circles, it’s considered ‘infra dig’ to play melody when someone else is playing ‘lead’. It’s ages since I’ve played in a bluegrass setting, so I’ll pass over to folks who know more about it than me.
Welcome Scionic!
I’m not much help on your topic really - but I will mention that using low whistles in appropriate keys usually goes well with accompanying singers.
Van Morrison has no point, can never get to making one either, is so up his own nether orifice there’s no chance he’d perceive or (if he did perceive) respond to or collaborate with anyone else’s point… man can’t sing, writes drivel… rant, rant, rant
I once car-shared for 4 months with a lady who only played VM all the way each way on a 40 minute commute. I haven’t recovered yet - nor listened to any since (not that I did before) if I could help it! He’s the archetype of that musicians’/artists’ grunge - “if he can/why can he make millions doing that…”
I lead a double life. I love traditional Irish music but I play with many friends who are much more inclined to play American acoustic music. I meet with a group of players regularly that play what they generally call Appalachian fiddle and bluegrass. Now I should mention that almost all of the participants play dobro. The resonator guitar is what brings us all to the same place to play. We have two ways of playing the fiddle and bluegrass stuff depending on who starts the tune. And most of the players also double on other acoustic instruments. We have a designated bass player too which is a shame because he is a great banjo player too. But he’s the only one with a stand-up bass. He happens to be a good luthier too and has built a few of the instruments others play in the session. Anyway, I digress. We have two ways of playing the fiddle and bluegrass stuff depending on who starts the tune. Sometimes we all play melody except for a rhythm guitar and the bass. But most of the time we go round the room from player to player each playing solo either a straight melody or improvised solo depending on their taste. When we do that everyone but the soloist chops wood. The whistle works if we all play a fiddle tune with everyone playing the same (well reasonably the same) melody. It also works on quite a few of the songs. I prefer to play a low whistle on the songs. Accompaniment style for the songs is a skill I have learned while playing. I play some melody and some fills between the sung lines. Listen to Mike McGoldrick on Waterbound in my links. When things go Bluegrass I pick up a guitar or dobro. I am frequently designated as a singer so that can really cut down on the whistle playing.
The best examples of a similar type of session I can point you to are the Transatlantic Sessions recordings and videos. These have been produced for the last several years for the BBC by Aly Bain and Jerry Douglas. The mix of music is well balanced IMO between American songs/tunes and songs/tunes from Britain/Scotland/Wales/Ireland. Rather than point to specific artists and recordings I’d advise starting with these sessions as exaples of what may be an attractive mix. The last time this came up, most of the performers mentioned by others had taken part in the Transatlantic Session programs at some point. There is a fair amount of flute and whistle in these sessions played by well know players. You can view many extracts from the TV broadcasts on YouTube. Here are a couple examples.
There are many, many other examples out there. There are a lot of tunes that cross the oceans both ways and that is what the Transatlantic Sessions shows try to illustrate. Tunes to start with might be The Red Haired Boy, Bonaparte’s Retreat, St. Anne’s Reel, or something like Si Beag Si Mor. Of course the Bluegrass Gospel stuff will emerge too with: Will the Circle Be Unbroken, I’ll Fly Away and others. We meet at a church too so it is not unusual to hear a hymn or two in an afternoon.
Look at this video from Transatlantic Sessions of Dan Tyminski doing his now definitive version of the old classic Man of Constant Sorrow and listen to Mike McGoldrick’s whistle. I am not good at explaining how I play the whistle on Old Tyme or Bluegrass songs but this example does a lot to sum it up. He basically follows the chord progression with his playing and improvises fills between the lines of lyrics. Does that make sense?
Oh, and don’t forget Ashokan Farewell. Everyone seems to know that one. Jay Unger played it with Aly Bain on the first season on Transatlantic Sessions but I can’t seem to find a video of that performance on YouTube any longer.
@ Scionic: there is a band in Kentucky that covers some similar territory w/ a bit of whistle here 'n there. Cloigheann they’ve a couple of youtubes up (both are Irish however)
Cat does a good job of twitterin’ about without steppin’ on anything. (seriously, she adds sparkles on the waves and does some lovely fills)
I probably have less experience than anybody else here but I’ll put my piece in anyways and hope it helps.
I usually slow down and play something closer to the chord progression when I’m not playing lead. The other thing I sometimes resort to is just playing the melody (When there are vocals) and filling in the breaks with something a little more showy. Luckily the folks I play with tend to give me a chance to really let loose a few times per song.
Thanks everyone for the input! I have a lot of great things to watch, listen to and consider as I learn to play with this group!
I guess that’s the thing. I could double the melody in a lot of cases, but my background is in mainly American Jazz sessions, and then Bluegrass when yes, one person takes the “head” and everyone else is playing some counterpoint, harmony or somesuch. I don’t suppose it’s a hard and fast written rule, but it’s usually a keep out of the way, yet highlight and enhance the lead player thing. Bottom line is still to play with the other musicians and not in front of them. I played a little whistle last night and even experimented with a little mandolin style percussive chopping. Not sure how it came off yet.
I played with my new Susato High D last night, and loved it. New fave. Do you have any experience with the Susato Low Whistles? I was thinking I might go that route. But yeah, I definitely want to try them in the group.
Didn’t really mean to open such a can of worms I guess, but it baffles me when someone can’t allow some silence in their music. Van seems to incessantly jibber when he runs out of lyrics, repeating and rehashing until I’m just annoyed with him. Some may like it, but I’m just not a fan of it. He even does it in his most famous song. It wasn’t so bad in that style, but give it a rest sometimes dude!
Anyway, thanks so much! You have all been so helpful and I look forward to hanging out here and hopefully growing as a whistler. Anyone know a good place I can get a sticker or two to adorn my whistle case?
I am a fan of Susato whistles generally. Some people like them and others may not. They work well and play in tune. Some folks don’t favour their tone but we all have different tastes. I’ve owned and played a set of Susato Kildares from high E down to low D. Susato were my main whistles for several years. The standard bore high whistles get a bad rap for their loud volume. The Medium and large bore low whistles don’t exhibit the loud volume characteristics of the high D. They are not quiet but offer a nice level for playing in groups. Susatos are free blowing whistles so they can use a fair amount of wind to keep them going but I never had much of an issue with that. The only negatives I have about them is that the beak, which is kind of short and stout, can feel quite large on the low whistles compared to other whistles (I played OS Chieftains before the Susatos). So that’s a personal judgement which may not matter to others. Also the B2 hole can be comparatively large on the Susato low whistles. That can make them difficult to play for individuals who have slim fingers. It took some getting used to for me to play the low E and low D’s I had. I really liked my low G Susato a lot. The low F was almost as nice as the G. Susatos are worth trying in my opinion.
The Susato was well received last night, so I’ll probably go that route with my first low whistle. I even received a little applause from some listeners, but in all honesty, I think it was just because they hadn’t heard a whistle at our Tuesday night sessions before. It had very little to do with my playing, and more to do with the novelty.
Long before the paddy boloney started the chieftain smashups,
the Boys of the Lough recorded " Good Friends, Good Music"
a rather nice mix of styles that worked.
Perfect sense. McGoldrick avoids the fiddle and accordion train wrecks.
Bain plays just one blue inflected note whereas
Cunningham can only conceive a major scaled solo.
Whitebread as the old jazzers would say. Follow your
Own good musical sense. My dime’s up, O
So, that’s the backstory, but my real question is this.
(seriously, she adds sparkles on the waves and does some lovely fills)