One of the whistlers at my slow session asked if I’d work on the Flogging Reel with her. I said I would and printed out the sheet music from the slowplayer website. It has three F naturals in it, making it fairly challenging to play. I went through the L.E. McCullough tune book, 121 FIST to see if I could find a recording to listen to. It is there, but that version of it has F# instead of the F nats, making it much easier. I asked a very experienced whistler what her version looked like and she said it definitely has three F nats, not F#'s. I know Irish trad allows for a lot of variation and creativity, but in this case it seems like it might be a case of watering down the tradition by making it easier. I have no interest in learning watered down tunes. So what’s the reality here? Is the 121 FIST version credible or just “dumbed down” to be more commercial? And if this one is watered down, how many others in the 121 FIST are that way also?
Henrik Norbeck’s collection of ABC tunes (in which The Flogging Reel is reel #1) has it in two variants, one with the “A-Cnat-Fnat-Cnat” sequence in the third part, and one with a “A-D-F-D” sequence. He lists a couple of CDs (Chieftans, Mary Bergin), but doesn’t mention what versions they play. Anyway, to me, the Fnat version is the one that rings a bell.
But, right or wrong, it seems L.E. McC isn’t the only one with a “Fnat’less” version of the tune.
Jens
Mary Bergin plays the F natural version.
Carol
A lot of pipers play F#. There was a bit of discussion of this over on the piping forum: http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?topic=7794&forum=6. But F natural is way cooler.
FWIW Lad O’Beirne played the third part something like
(3Bcd gd (3Bcd gd|(3Bcd gd BG~G2|(3ABc gc (3ABc gc|(3ABc gc BG~G2|
Check out this old thread
I’d say the version you choose to play is a matter of your own taste and compatibility with others you are playing with. The F-natural setting is certainly more widespread, but that does not make a setting that uses sharps wrong.
Going off on a tangent I’m fairly sure that a lot of F-naturals (and other accidentals such as B-flat) in Irish music result from the attempts of fixed-pitch instruments to reproduce the “in-between” pitch that unschooled fiddle players for example will naturally play. (See the recurring debate about just intonation.)
A notable example is the F-natural that has crept into the second part of “Chief O’Neill’s Favourite”. What you really want is a slightly flat F#, but your banjos and accordions can’t do that, so they plump for this jarring F-natural, which introduces a totally new character into the tune: some like it, some don’t.
This is a bit of a red herring because I don’t consider the F-naturals in the Floggin’ Reel dubious at all, quite the reverse in fact. All a matter of taste.
[ This Message was edited by: StevieJ on 2003-01-29 10:42 ]
I learnt the F# version as a piper from other pipers and never heard them play it any other way. The first time I heard the Fnat being played by fiddle players, it sounded quite nasty to me, though now I’ve got used to hearing it.
As to “which came first”, I don’t know, but to answer the original question I would regard the F# version as legitimate and certainly not a dumbed-down version.
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
[ This Message was edited by: Roger O’Keeffe on 2003-01-29 10:42 ]
I had a similar experience with the Old Bush, which has a lot of C naturals in it.
I bought a CD called Na Connerys, and lo and behold, they were playing every C nat as a C#. Peter Laban id’ed the group for me and it included Paul McGrattan, who did the C nat version on Frost is All Over.
So go figure. But that C# version was using pipes as well.
Cnat is the true uilleann piper’s most favouritest note of all. On a chanter that’s anyway good you can bend the bejasus out of it. Listen to any recording of Willie Clancy, it’s part of what gives his playing that simultaneously wild and melancholic sound. On the F he often slides up from the E to to somewhere in the general vicinity of nat to sharp, to get a similarly yowling sound, but I don’t think he ever plays a straight F nat.
It’s all this hanging around in sessions with other musicians that tends to drive this kind of piping-specific thing underground.
There is a clip of Teri Kessler playing The Flogging Reel on Clips and Snips. http://www.nwparalegal.com/music/flogging.mp3 I’ve heard good flute players use the Fnat, and I prefer it, but I couldn’t get in on the pipes. Nice to hear someone getting it on the whistle.
I just noticed Teri is using a C whistle, and using fingerings for the key of “A” which allows a whole different ability to get the note in question.
[ This Message was edited by: Lorenzo on 2003-01-29 14:10 ]
hi roger,
i live in flanders, do you give any lessons at your place?
Thanks all, I’m glad I posted this. I’ve learned a lot from it.
On 2003-01-29 14:05, Lorenzo wrote:
I just noticed Teri is using a C whistle, and using fingerings for the key of “A” which allows a whole different ability to get the note in question.
[ This Message was edited by: Lorenzo on 2003-01-29 14:10 ]
Thanks Lorenzo. It’s an old beat-to-death C which actually plays about 50 cents sharp. I played the standard Gmaj. setting (BG~G2 BGdG|BG~G2 Bdgd|BG~G2 BdcB| , etc.) as though using a D whistle and used xxx xox to get the Fnat.
Teri
Yes indeedy, Lixnaw.
We meet every Tuesday in the Irish Club in Brussels, except for the second Tuesday of the month when we have a session across the road in the James Joyce pub.
The workshop in the Irish Club caters for all instruments. We also have a couple of piper-specific events including a residential tionol which is coming up in May. Check out <a href=http://membres.lycos.fr/tirelarigot/itmib/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=27>this address for more information.
The notice on the Irish](http://users.skynet.be/icb/icbtrad.htm%3EIrish) Club website hasn’t been updated yet, but send me an e-mail at this address Roger.O’Keeffe@cec.eu.int rather than the one shown on the ICB website and we’ll discuss getting together.
Multiply edited for HTML and BBcode quasi-illiteracy
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
[ This Message was edited by: Roger O’Keeffe on 2003-01-30 04:38 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Roger O’Keeffe on 2003-01-30 04:39 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Roger O’Keeffe on 2003-01-30 04:40 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Roger O’Keeffe on 2003-01-30 04:41 ]