I saw this on CNN..
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/08/15/hybrid.tinkerers.ap/index.html
Sounds interesting. Anybody got an out-of-warranty Prius they want to sell?
Robin
The added weight of the extra batteries would reduce the long-distance fuel economy after you’ve drained the batteries, but it’s probably great for a local commute.
Stuff like this is very cool (I know a kid who tweaked 450 hp out of his honda insight with no loss in mpg), however there is a serious cost-effectiveness issue that the article does not bring up…
all those extra batteries cost money to replace (in the one utilizing standard car batteries). From what I know about hybrids from working on a few is that, to opperate at maximum efficiency, their batteries have to be higher capacity ones. They are naturally more expensive (about $75-$80 here); times that by eight batteries…even if that’s a one time expense, it’s still hefty.
On top of that, all those batteries weigh as much as a small person; the more weight you add to your car, the less effecient it will be.
The vehicle that utilizes lithium-ion batteries will run into a similar problem, this one running into the longevity versus cost effective scenerio.
Lithium batteries, despite what the industry will tell you, develop what is referred to as “memory” as they age. (In traditional lithium ion hi-capacity batteries the lifespan before developing a “memory” is about one to two years, depending on usage.) The “memory” effect causes the battery to accept less and less charge until they are nearly useless…again, lithium batteries are not cheap…
I’m glad that the article does admit that plugging in a car doesn’t really help the environment as much a folks would like to think…the power’s gotta come from somewhere, i.e. coal or oil fuled power plants, BUT this is a great step in the right direction.
To make a hybrid maximize it’s potential, one must do much more than work on the electrical/storage side of the equation…If I can tune an engine that’s over 30 years old to get 50mpg on it’s own (and hybrid gas engines aren’t much bigger on average), you better damn well believe it oughta be done in the factory too. The efficiency rating of the gasoline engine in some of the hybrids, when tested alone, are not so great…for as much as the technology costs, we ought to use some of our good old-fashioned mechanical know how to tweek as much out of the gas portion first, then work on the electric drive portion. If that’s done, I’m sure you’ll see these same folks dudding up cars that get 300mpg or better.
Until then, the cheapest way to save gas is to buy a Mini 
.
On a side note…last weekend was speed week at the Bonneville Salt Flats and Wendover Nevada…
there was a classic Mini there that into which someone had transplanted the hybrid electric drive system out of a Honda Civic Hybrid. The guy claims 375 hp at the wheels and 90mpg!!! 
This guy was beating pro drag cars on the strip!
The best part was…it made no sound. 
The Minis are taking over, baby, yeah!
My husband would love to have a mini! 
However, it’s just not practical to try and stuff a family of 4 into one. I also would rather spend money on gas and have him be in a safer commuter vehicle when confronted with one of these:
Robin
Actually, when passengers are properly strapped in, the classic Mini is as safe as cars nearly 30 years it’s junior.
You can also fit four people comfortably in the Mini; they’re deceptively roomy. 
I have more room in my Mini than in my wife’s Grand Cherokee Ltd.
See related discussion on this story:
Thanks brad, my points exactly .
Just go Mini
I’m sure the info is buried in one of the other Mini threads, but (since I’m not really a car guy and didn’t read all of 'em)…
What would be the average cost of a decent older-model Mini, and what kind of gas mileage would it get? Do the currently available stock hybrids really have any advantage over something like a Mini? What about the new Minis?
There ya go, Tyler; I’ve just given you another opportunity to promote your favorite cars. I’ll probably regret it… :roll:
Slude,
I got my first one in running condition for about $5k. Depending on the engine size, you could get anywhere from 35mpg to about 60mpg, depending also on the way the engine is set up.
Considering the my current cost for a total restoration job on my Mini (about $10k, including the cost of the car), I’m still way under what you might pay for a hybrid…(My car didn’t really need the resto job, but when you get into these little things its hard to stop!)
A year 2000 model Mini (right before BMW came out with the MINI) can be had (importation included) for about $16k…again, well under what you’d pay for a hybrid.
So the mileage is pretty comparable… if you get an older Mini (before the fuel injected ones in the late 80s early 90s) you have to tool with the carburettor a lot to make sure it stays in the economy range you want, but that’s a fairly simple thing to learn.
If you’re interested, talk to this guy…
http://www.miniguy.com
he can point you in the right direction, and also help make sure that you get the right one for your needs.
Having seen the results of two accidents involving H2 Hummers, I think I’d stick with the Mini. The H2 is a re-bodied (sounds like a Stephen King movie ) 1/2-ton GM pickup truck with a lot of front and rear crush structure removed. The accidents I saw both involved 1/2- and 3/4-ton pickups as the other vehicle in the crashes. I would have preferred being in the pickups in both instances as the H2’s looked like a bomb had gone off in their engine bays, while the pickups were relatively intact. Large mass, and low emergency maneuverability only works if you’re in an M1 Abrams SUV:
Seating for 5, or 6, with unparallelled visibility. Intimidation factor (which is why most Americans buy SUVs) beyond anything since the Plymouth Belvedere was last on the road. 
As far as the subject of hybrids, or pure electrical vehicles, take into account the amortized cost of replacing batteries, and the environmental cost of recycling/disposing of lithium compounds. Hybrids have their “hearts” in the right place, but there are such things as unmatured (didn’t want the connotation implied by “immature”) technologies. Alternatives to fossil fuels are coming, but like any other technology, the best incentives are in the market, not government mandates. The best energy saving engine plant I’ve seen are the direct-injection turbo diesels. They are cleaner than previous generation diesels, drive like a gasoline (petrol) engine, and have a long life.
dave boling
Very true, they’re not extremely safe…
besides, going in a GM or a Ford you’re taking your life into your hands anyways…
You can also fit four people comfortably in the Mini; they’re deceptively roomy.
They’re roomier than many cars their size, but fitting four adults for anything but a short journey is not comfortable.
The front seats are excellent and very roomy, but the rear seats as I recall lack depth and footroom.
I just keep kids there for now…and very small people
Speaking of Minis, this is funny as hell!!!
Someone created a fiberglass bodyshell for a new MINI convertible that makes it look like a Viper!!
I just spent some time reading www.calcars.org. Really interesting stuff. I’m hoping my next car will be a hybrid.
In the meantime, I’m suddenly getting ALL KINDS of questions about my trusty Toyota Echo whenever I gas up. The most popular being, of course, “what kind of mileage do you get on that little thing?” NOW I’m getting respect after being sneered at by macho SUV owners for a couple of years.
Dale
You want real respect, bro?
If you’re going to get serious, why not go all of the way:
Joe Huffaker, and the mini-from-hell.
dave boling
You ought to start the definitive website on minis. If your experience is anything like mine has been with whistles, pretty soon you’ll have a few hundred good ones.
Dale
Y’know, you’re probably right Dale. I just have too damn much fun on C&F to abandon it completely though, and since I’ve been offered a promotion at work my C&F time will be scaled down considerably as it is!
As one of nine classic Mini owners in Utah, I’ve been trying to get a classic Mini club together within the British Motor Club of Utah (
http://www.britishmotorclub.org)
because the current Mini club of Utah is 99% new MINI owners and they don’t like to include us classic blokes in their weenie roasts (mostly because we’ll jabber on about the mechanical/technical/asthetic sides of Mini restoration, y’know, intellegent conversation on the topic for which we’re gathered, and most of them are just there because they own a new MINI, not because they’ve worked hard to put a classic back together…it’s not the same experience).
Mebey after I’ve gotten a good start on my second Mini (another '62) then I’ll look at starting my own website.
Great Idea Dale!!!Tanx!!
That’s eventually the idea!!!
I do a little bit of SCCA Solo-II in my P.O.S. Toy-yoda Corolla GT-S, and would love to do full on autocross, but I’d have to relocate to do it. The biggest racing experiences we have here, aside from the odd Solo-II meet, are a bunch of circle-track events and drag racing…And I’m sure that you’ll agree with me when I say that there’s more to life than running around in circles and trying to go in a straight line as fast as you can…
As far as drag racing is concerned…been there done that. I used to have a 1990 TransAm GTA that I supercharged and loaded for nitrous oxide (I used to be so into F-body cars when I was younger, jeeeezz I sicken myself). Full tilt, I was well over 400hp in good form, but the thing cornered like an aircraft carrier on tricicle wheels, even after extensive suspension mods. (Honest to goodness, on most Solo-II courses I spanked my TransAm’s times with a non-turbo Eagle Talon that I used to have.)
Then one day I was spanked by a Honda in the quarter mile…I forsook 'merican cars then and the rest is history.
Well then, do not start biking! My 5 foot tall wife thought that I was a nut job biker and that I had issues. Then she started biking to work…
Normally I do not mess with SUVs or busses, but I know at least two that must be scratching their head saying “I could have squashed her, and she has the gall to flip me the bird?”
Yep stay in your safe box on the road it is better for your mental health.
PS Cars are coffins.