Hawkes and Son flute [fife?]

[abelbabel]

Hi can anyone tell me if this is worth anything. My dad gave it to me and said it was used in ww1. It says Hawkes and son, london, and on the mouth part[?] there is an inscription of a crown that says A.Z underneath. [it needs a bit of a clean i think]

p.s. does anyone want to buy it?

[LorenzoFlute]

It's worth nothing, just send it to me, I'll pay the shipping...

[dow]

It's worth nothing, just send it to me, I'll pay the shipping...

Nah, you don't want to send it him, He's in Italy.

Send it to me instead. I'm in Texas

[NicoMoreno]

It's not clear how big the flute actually is. Can you give the overall length, or the key? It looks like it's probably in Bb, but it could be in F.

If it's in Bb, it's probably not worth a ton - $50-$100, and if it's in F maybe $100-$200, depending of course on how good of shape it's in, whether the keys need repadding.

I'd be interested if it is in F.

[LorenzoFlute]

It looks like a Bb...

[jemtheflute]

It's not clear how big the flute actually is. Can you give the overall length, or the key? It looks like it's probably in Bb, but it could be in F.

If it's in Bb, it's probably not worth a ton - $50-$100, and if it's in F maybe $100-$200, depending of course on how good of shape it's in, whether the keys need repadding.

I'd be interested if it is in F.

Crown AZs are worth very significantly more than (any) other brands of band-flute, including other Hawkes models. The active flute band community in N. Ireland and Scotland pay over-the-odds premium prices for them. A thorough search of past sales on eBay will demonstrate this. I'm afraid NicoMoreno's estimates, whilst fair enough for other decent quality band flutes, are simply way below market value in this case. It looks to me like an F, BTW - the two-part body and the long rod-axle on the Eb key are the give-aways, though we'd need the overall length to confirm that observation. If it is c15"/38cm it will be in Bb, if it is 19-20"/48-50cm, it will be in F. There is an outside possibility that, if it is a bit longer again, it could be an Eb - much rarer and therefore still more valuable.

I believe, but am not certain, that all Crown AZs were built for old English High Pitch, A= c 455Hz, and will not play satisfactorily at 440, which makes them of relatively little practical use outside the band flute using community. Other High Pitch band flutes have very little value in the open market (the sort of figures mentioned above, if that much), ones that will play at 440Hz being worth more because of their wider present-day utility. But as I wrote above, Crown AZs are a special case. You have a pretty valuable instrument (in the right market) here, especially if it is in undamaged condition. Be careful! You would be well advised to offer it on eBay with a decent reserve and NOT to take any pre-close offers, if you really want to part with it and make the most of it.

[plunk111]

I have a 6-key Hawkes and Son in Bb, but it is block-mounted, not post-mounted and doesn't have a tuning slide. Quite a nice player, actually! I think I paid $40 for mine on eBay, but I really feel like it's worth more. The "old flute" market seems to be a little (well, maybe a lot) depressed right now, actually. I've had a gorgeous Potter (via Jon Cornia) in the used instruments exchange for a while with no luck. If I were you, I think I'd hold on to it for a while.

If it IS in F, I'd be interested, too!

Pat

[jemtheflute]

I have a 6-key Hawkes and Son in Bb, but it is block-mounted, not post-mounted and doesn't have a tuning slide. Quite a nice player, actually! I think I paid $40 for mine on eBay, but I really feel like it's worth more. Pat

Like I said, Hawkes Crown AZs are a special case. I haven't tried to check, but I seem to recall the last couple of clearly identifiable AZ Fs that went through eBay achieved over £400 GBP and Bbs over £250. The specialists interested in them will come out of the woodwork for them, economic climes notwithstanding!

Also, no disrespect intended to the OP, but I would be very careful about the offer for sale of such an item from a 1st time poster with no location!

[RudallRose]

I believe Mr. Quinn, one of our occassional C&Fers, is a devotee of the Crown AZ flutes of Hawkes and is constantly on the hunt for them.

here you go for info and a contact:

http://fifeanddrummuseum.org/hawkesandsons.aspx

[LorenzoFlute]

What's the difference in quality between Crown AZ and the ones marked first class? There's an Hawkes and Son piccolo (probably) marked first class on ebay italy that has been for sale for months, nobody wants it (it only has buy it now price at 250 euros )

[jemtheflute]

Ah, thanks for reminding me of that source, David. This page shows an F Crown AZ.

Lorenzo, I'm actually not sure what the answer to your Q is. I don't think they were necessarily made to higher standards than e.g. Boosey's "Excelsior Sonorous" and other model names both Boosey and Hawkes separately and after their merger used, though there does seem to have been some sort of hierarchy to the naming reflecting quality. Most of their instruments were good, but on the face of it the example you quote is certainly over-priced for anything but a Crown AZ. I think perhaps one angle on the Crown AZs may be that they were quite definitely and specifically aimed at the military band HP market and standardised, thence, together with their high quality, their desirability to this day to the marching band fraternity. Other models may have varied in pitch standards - indeed, maybe the model names had pitch implications, though that is a speculation on my part. Certainly some of both firms' instruments were at lower pitches.

[jemtheflute]

Mmmmm no sign of the OP???

Anyway, I've had a little more time now:

Another link for Erne Supplies/fifeanddrummuseum (they're essentially the same folk) with background info on Crown AZ flutes, amongst other things: http://ernemusicsupplies.com/fromfifetoflute.aspx

The following link is pertinent, especially as to value for a Bb, at least!

eBay Nov 2010 Bb band Flute £310

If you Google "Hawkes Crown AZ flute" you'll find quite a bit, including hits on "wanted" adds placed by the kind of specialists I mentioned. Also there are relevant old threads/mentions (including more appeals for examples to buy) here on C&F - use the forum Search tool. This post is one where I recorded some eBay crown AZ sales (no longer traceable on eBay).

This old thread is cautionary!

[abelbabel]

The flute is 49cm in length, does this mean it's an F?

[jemtheflute]

The flute is 49cm in length, does this mean it's an F?

Yes. I think 49 is between 48-50 still?

[LorenzoFlute]

Ouch...